Maureen Crowe surrounded by some of her fans after her Lifetime Achievement Award presentation and Keynote Interview. (Photo by James DiModica)
I want to get back to picking music and pushing boundaries and taking risks. In Houdini there’s a lot of Rock stuff in the score, but it’s a period piece—almost unheard of. Variety magazine did an article and talked about you doing that. Who comes up with an idea like that? “Oh, we’re doing a period piece about Houdini, let’s stick a bunch of Rock songs in there.” And it worked really, really well.
Well, look at Boardwalk Empire. How does Boardwalk Empire start? What’s the opening title music? It’s Rock ... it’s guitar, it’s Rock! So it’s the same thing with Houdini. Initially, the director and the producer wanted to do a very linear story, he wanted all period; even like the recordings shouldn’t be perfect; like you want a little “hair” on it. I was finding circus bands and stuff. But it didn’t work, because it didn’t give you the emotional contact that [Houdini] was a Rock star of his day, that he really pushed the boundaries. And the same thing with Boardwalk Empire. So, by using contemporary music and using Rock music, it immediately telegraphed to people that this guy was really crazy and tough and he pushed the edges and he was constantly on the move and had that drive. And you know, “Bicycle Built for Two” was not going to do that.
On a film, you have months and you answer to the director and make him or her happy. On episodic TV, because it’s weekly, when do you get the script? What’s your timeline like as a supervisor? And who do you have to make happy for a TV show?
Usually you get a budget for the entire year, and then you can kind of break it up per episode. So some episodes I might use less money, and then kind of bank the money for something bigger and more expensive they may need later on. Usually we start in like June or July—a couple months before—you’re with the writers and you’re writing notes on scripts and you’re kind of [gathering] stuff. And then as time goes on, that prep-time gets less and less. Because, like I said, as you’re prepping one story, you’re shooting another, and you’re doing post-production on another. So it just starts really going like a machine.
You have to please the writers, and usually these are all teams. So there’s usually an executive producer, who is the head guy or head woman who has to say “okay” to everything. But then each script may have a different team. They may have 10 writers on the show, and each one gets assigned a different writer, or they might write together. And then you have different directors coming in every week. The directors are made-for-hire, and they follow through the whole thing, so you may be switching among two or three directors at a time—one in prep, one that’s shooting, and then one in post. And they may come in with their own ideas, you know, so you have to kind of get into their sensibility. I mean, that was really a common thing, because [all of those episodes] were all different themes and had different things going on.
On a show like Scandal, or even like Nashville, a lot of that stuff will be prepped ahead of time and the director will just… So it really will go to the writers and the studio to make the decisions. If the studio isn’t happy—especially with a big franchise like ABC—they will be involved in it.
It used to be that there was a lot of timing involved with record labels, both in films, probably in TV shows. We’ve got an artist who is doing a release, probably a known, previously successful artist who has a Christmas release coming out in say September or October. So the supervisor might work months in advance to time the release of the single with the show. Does that stuff still matter with the current state of the music industry? Because records come out… I think I just heard the other day that we haven’t had a platinum record yet in 2014.
I think Taylor Swift actually just went over the line. I think she did it. But, you know, the record companies are constantly talking about, “Okay, we’ve got this release. How does this work for you?” Obviously, [Snow Patrol’s] “Chasing Cars,” the famous use that was used in Grey’s Anatomy, was a tie-in to a known band. A lot of supervisors got that song, and I was working on Poseidon at the time, and it was like “this was not going to work for me anywhere.” But it worked for Grey’s Anatomy, and it worked really well. It covered four different story lines for the finale of the show. So that was a great thing. So they do look at that.
“Your tool is music, but you are just as much part of the media story as the actors, as the set designers, as the costumers, and everything else. You are not the second cousin who gets to eat in the kitchen.”
-Maureen Crowe
The flip side of that—and this goes to the NFL story about the “pay to play” with Katy Perry, that she’s not paying to play, but yet she’s not getting paid, and she’s still paying her back-end for the “privilege” of getting tremendous ratings for the promotional value of performing during the NFL halftime show, which of course is the biggest ad revenue for the NFL. So I think there should be a movement that she should be paid, and if she’s not paid, a huge donation should be made to MusiCares and Society of Singers. [applause] So I think you all should start blogging that, Facebooking that, and everything else. And the idea is that if that does not happen, then just turn off your TVs during the Super Bowl games. That’s all you have to do. That’s the power of the consumer. That will raise the value of music, because that’s ultimately the big picture that we are all about.
This was the NFL, who are all billionaires. It was like, “Oh the ratings are so high, we’re really doing Bruno Mars a favor by letting him perform at the halftime show.” It was like, “Oh really? Oh, because he was nothing before, and that’s why you wanted him, because you really wanted to help his career? The guy’s so good, let’s give him a shot.”
It’s like there’s no turning back. It’s getting worse by the…
We have to make it better. I mean, that’s the whole thing, there has to be a sense of this will not stand. I understand that everyone is competitive; I understand for some people this is like a heartfelt kind of hobby that you like to do and it makes you feel good, and, you know, you’ve got your day job and things like that. But you want to be great; you want the music to be great, and you don’t want to be undercutting somebody else’s greatness by flooding the market and by doing something that’s, “Oh gosh, I can sound like this record and not really be that record.” And I understand that there is a place for that, and definitely supervisors need that. But we also just need great, great music.
The piece that was in Houdini was very difficult to find. It wasn’t something that was gonna come from a library, because it just really needed something very specific. As soon as it went in they were like, “Oh yeah, great,” because they were convinced that we weren’t going to find anything. And the composer was like, “I don’t want to do it. Find it, find it.” So that’s the kind of commitment that you really need to have.
We found it in a matter of days.
Yeah, very quickly and directly, and the writer was very accessible. He was a working musician; he had a regular band that was playing around. And this was like a little side thing for him, but he knew what he was doing. So if you’re not going to take the crap seriously by answering somebody who’s interested in you, you’ve got to really rethink how dedicated you are to this. You need to either value yourself more, or value other people’s time more. Because when they’re listening to it they are assuming that you want the attention. And if you don’t call them back, it’s like knocking on the door and running away. Is that what you’re doing? Are you going to try all the elevator buttons just for fun?
The TAXI member who got that piece in Houdini was Mark Capone. Are you here, Mark?
I know he has a regular tour thing that he does. But this is a contact now, you know? I know him now. I know he’s got his band and I’m listening to him. Because we care about the people that deliver, the people that if we take the time to listen and we say, “Hey, I like your song, I’m gonna call back.” If you don’t call back… People don’t forget. Now it’s like, “Wait a minute, wasn’t that the guy that I called who didn’t call me back?” We don’t have time for that. Life is too short. Forget it, because it is fast. [Maureen snaps her fingers to underscore the point.]
You guys [in the audience] are all part of media now. Your tool is music, but you are just as much part of the media story as the actors, as the set designers, as the costumers, everything else. You are not the second cousin who gets to eat in the kitchen. There’s never been a silent movie industry; there’s always been music. Everyone has to really understand their value. Even if the economics are tough, you still have to value what you do and return the phone call. Or just don’t bother anybody. Because it’s like they took the time to listen to your stuff and you don’t have the time to call back, I’m like, “Oh, okay, put that person in that box. Goodbye.”
We are all trying to cut through a lot of stuff. I have, honesty, been very impressed by the material that you all [TAXI members] are doing, and I just want it to be better. More better makes our job easier.
Speaking of “more better,” you’re the co-founder and five-year-long president of the Guild of Music Supervisors, which why it took so long for that to happen I don’t know, but it figures that it was you that did it. Why did you create the Guild?
Well, a lot of us had been working as independent contractors, so we don’t get health care; we don’t get anything. And, you know, with the paradigm shift of the record industry, it devalued music, and it also devalued music supervision, even though they keep hiring us. It was devalued in terms of how much supervisors get paid.
And there’s a flood of out of work A&R people who say, “I’m a music supervisor…” But the job isn’t just hangin’ out and listening to music.
Yeah, listening to music all day, that’s a great job. I wish that was the job! I get to do that at like 10 o’clock at night, you know, because the phone is ringing, you’re making deals, you’re doing the production demands, you’re talking to directors, you’re putting out listings at TAXI, and you’re calling people to get the material in. Then, when the phone stops ringing you can actually start listening to stuff. And if you get the answers, you’re like, “Oh, thank God.” And if you’re not, you’re like, “Oh my God, I’ve got to start making calls again first thing in the morning.”
But the reason we started the Guild, I was a governor on the L.A. Chapter of the Recording Academy and was elected President of the L.A. Chapter of the Recording Academy. And at the time music supervisors were not considered voting members; it was not considered a craft. I think I was the first music supervisor that was in that, because I also had voting rights as a producer of soundtracks. And they kept saying, “We need educated members of the Recording Academy so that they listen to a lot of music and they make good judgments and stuff like that.” It’s like, hello, music supervisors listen to everything, that’s what their thing is. And there’s always the perception like, “Don’t they just handle the paperwork?” And half the room stood up and said, “You don’t know what’s going on.”
So that ended up happening, and we actually got all the music supervisors together to let them know that they now had voting rights, and they can vote at the Grammys—which means they were eligible to actually purchase tickets to the Grammys—and that they could be part of the community. So we got all the leading music supervisors, about a hundred people came in, and Dawn Soler, who is now the head of music ABC Television, who was independent at the time, said, “Aha, okay, so where’s the curtain?” It was like, “What do you mean where’s the curtain? You didn’t have us come down here to just say that you were acknowledging us as a crowd. I mean, where’s the band?” Like this is a switch-and-bait thing, because we’re always asked to see bands, and it’s always, “What can you do for us?” “Oh you’re a music supervisor, what can you do for me?” as opposed to the other way around.
It was a very emotional meeting. Following that, we had a dinner with Alex Patsavas, Dave Jordan, John Houlihan, PJ Bloom, Evyen Klean, Bonnie Greenberg—who has done The Mask and My Best Friend’s Wedding—and even Becky Mancuso, who did Urban Cowboy, just to show the history of who was there. “Do you want to form a guild? Do you want to be a promotional arm about the value of music supervision as a craft, and stop all these people flooding the market, and then doing a bad job, and then having producers saying, “Ugh, music supervisors, they’re a disaster.”
“Nothing can help sell your product or your story like music.”
-Maureen Crowe
And then you get called in to fix it for no money.
Yeah, you get called in to fix it for no money… Like I have had so many times the producer saying, “Oh my God, I’ve never had this experience, everything worked. Everything worked, it’s on budget, it’s on time, and there are no problems. I didn’t know it could be this way.” And I’m like, “Yes, well, that’s because you didn’t really know the skill-set.” So we published a skill-set of what producers and directors should expect from music supervisors, and that’s being used.
So then we got that, but we also got award recognition. So with a soundtrack like on The Bodyguard, everyone went away with an “Album of the Year” credit. I actually put the entire record together, and I got a certificate saying, “Thank you for participating.” [laughter] I said, “Oh, that’s so nice.”
So now when a soundtrack wins, and the music supervisor worked on 51% of the record, he or she will also go home with a Grammy. [applause]
But we’re not stopping there. Since we got craft recognition now, we are actually in conversations for the last three years with the Television Academy. Because both the Television Academy and the Motion Picture Academy pretty much just represent composers and original songwriters. So that means, like the Motion Picture Academy, Scorsese’s music and storytelling—irrelevant; Quentin Tarantino—irrelevant; “I Will Always Love you,” irrelevant.
Always the bastard stepchild…
You know, I’m sitting here listening to you, and it’s just like at dinner—everything coming out of her mouth is great stuff. I am so thrilled to be your friend and have these opportunities to learn this stuff from you. I think that you should teach classes to all up-and-coming supervisors to elevate them in their craft.
You know, I have, but part of me is because it’s such a poor paying job. People are thinking, “Oh my gosh, you’ve got six shows—you must be rollin’ in it.” You know, when you’ve got that many shows, though, you start paying for overhead. So even if a supervisor is tremendously successful, he’s not making any more money. He’s probably breaking even.
So I was teaching for a long time, but I felt that Belmont University is $40,000 a year. If someone has just paid $150,000 for their education and they want to be a music supervisor and get $22,000 a show—or the privilege for working for free—I’m like, I cannot do that. So until we fix the economic model of it…
That’s true. While the price is dropping precipitously both for supervisors and musicians making music, the number of opportunities has grown.
Because nothing sells like music. Nothing can help sell your product or your story like music.
And with that ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank Miss Maureen Crowe!
Thank you, Michael. You’re the best. Keep writing great music! [applause]
To read Part One of our interview with Maureen Crowe, click here.